Can you explain your comment? Because she spoke out or because she is a Dreamer?
Neither. She had let her paperwork lapse before she spoke out.
she was deported or held because she didn't follow the law, simple as that. not sure why it seems so many are against deportation, it is a law and it is there for good reason, so we are not paying for citizens of other countries welfare.
In one South American country where I lived, armed military would stop vehicles (both private and buses) at any point along any road and ask to see the traveler's papers. This was just a fact of life. The military and the police could also ask to see the papers of any person just walking down a street.
Neither. She had let her paperwork lapse before she spoke out.
she was deported or held because she didn't follow the law, simple as that. not sure why it seems so many are against deportation, it is a law and it is there for good reason, so we are not paying for citizens of other countries welfare.
The hard part for me is ripping familys apart. It's easy to look at these people like numbers, but they are just like us, they love their children, and the majority a decent folks. I agree that they broke the law when they entered. Sadly they knew this was a possible outcome when they made the decision to break the law to provide a better life. We played a big part of this with our flip-flop policies over the years.
I don't really get the anchor baby deal. I mean, who didn't think we'd have people dropping pups to give them citizenship. I can see it in the past, but that law needs to be looked at. We also need to focus people over staying their visas. We've had a blind eye on this for so long it's become common place. I'm just rambling all over the place, this is kinda how I see it. Like Trump says "I didn't think it was that complicated".
If someone wants to educate me more on this I don't mind. I sometimes feel I have to really look at how I was kinda programed by the media and prevailing attitudes of my time and rethink my beliefs and opinions.
Through the years, I've noticed the things you mention, kilgoretrout. And, no, I can't 'educate you'. But just to add to what you've said, the first time I had ever heard of an immigration problem was when I was under ten years old (decades ago). Here's what I heard 'grown ups' saying,..."Oh no! Dear old Gertrude is German and she has been living here for years with no valid immigration papers. This isn't right. We should always have the proper documentation to be in compliance with the government's requirements wherever we live. But Gertrude is afraid to turn in an application. Someone must help her with this." Now, Gertrude wasn't going to be procreating, and she wasn't married. Apparently she didn't even need a doctor. And she wasn't going to be committing any crime --other than the already-stated one of living here without proper documents. Yet, everyone I knew was in aggrement that anyone who immigrates to the US (or any other country, for that matter) should have their documents in order.
What I see is the real issue is the fact that our economy perpetuates the cycle of illegals living here and establishing roots.
Recently Carl's Jr. CEO, Andrew Puzder, was slated to become Labor Secretary but then they found out his household staff did not have citizenship. Mr. Puzder lives in the illustrious City of Montecito, California where many other celebrities live and enjoy the low cost of hiring illegals to maintain their lavish lifestyles.
So until our businesses and households decide that vetting who you hire to get the job done, the problem of illegals living here will continue and be an issue for our government to tackle.
Employers are required to confirm the work authorization of every new hire at the time of hire, using Form I-9 for the purpose. You are not, however, expected to be an expert on the documents that establish work authorization. In fact, an employer can be penalized for discrimination for checking documents too zealously or insisting on a particular document, such as a green card. The way the rules put it, you should accept documents from the I-9 lists that “reasonably appear on their face to be genuine and to relate to the person presenting them.” If that standard doesn’t strike you as crystal clear, you are not alone. Still, if you are acting in good faith and following the I-9 procedures, you should be safe from liability if ICE discovers that one of your workers has presented bad documents. A formal I-9 compliance policy might be a good way to demonstrate your good faith. You might also want to check out ICE’s IMAGE program, through which ICE becomes “your workforce compliance partner” -- though surely this partnership will not suit every employer. If any information comes your way, subsequent to hire, that suggests a worker may not be authorized to work in the U.S., you should look into it. The reason for this is that employers can be held liable not only for actual knowledge of a worker’s undocumented status, but also for “constructive knowledge” – that is, basically, for having reason to know. Having reason to know might be, for instance, receiving notice from the Social Security Administration (SSA) that someone on your payroll is using a Social Security number (SSN) that doesn’t match the name for that number in the SSA database. Again, though, you have to be careful how you proceed with such information, always avoiding the leap to a conclusion. SSA database discrepancies don’t always mean unauthorized workers, as the SSA “no-match” letters themselves explicitly state, and hasty action on partial information could lead to a discrimination claim."
I love immigration. I love immigrants. I love legal immigration and legal immigrants.
I also love illegal immigrants. I love them enough to want them to have to become legal citizens or be deported.
To clarify that. I have lived in areas with high concentrations of illegal immigrants. I saw how they were treated; They are grossly underpaid Forced to work in dangerous conditions Charged usurious loan interest rates on over priced dilapidated homes and cars They don't follow sanitary bathroom hygiene (flushing used toilet tissue) because toilets in their home countries can't really accept flushed paper they throw poop covered tissue on the floor in public restrooms, (this causes greater incidences of preventable illnesses in elementary schools) They can't exactly refuse to pay outrageous prices and interest rates if they want a car or home They can't demand better working conditions They can't vote They live in fear
Why? Because they have no rights.
These are people who work so very hard for a better life. These are people who may have shouldered great financial burdens just to come here. These people may have suffered horrors at the hands of the coyotes they paid to bring them here. These are people who may have watched loved ones die on the trip. These illegal immigrants are not just from other parts of the Americas, they come from many countries.
The cost to become a citizen is much lower than the cost to enter our country.
If liberals truly cared one whit for the illegal immigrants rather than fighting to allow them to stay, they would convert that time and energy into fundraising efforts to aid them on their path to legal citizenship. It's really not safe for illegals to be living and working here as they have no legal recourse. They can't exactly call the police, organize into a workers union, obtain fair loans...etc. From my view point liberals must hate and devalue this section of our population. If they cared wouldn't they want them to enjoy all the freedoms and benefits they worked so hard to come here for?
Well said larue. That's the thing, there are legal citizens who are lazy AB people who sit around with no job but use all government resources. Just a parasitic drain to society. Meanwhile, you have these illegals who can't use government resources because they're not citizens but they work hard underpayed jobs to help support their families. I'd rather see them becoming citizens and contributing to society instead of just them being sent back to where they came from.
I'd rather see them becoming citizens and contributing to society instead of just them being sent back to where they came from.
By the time Obama's people got around to tackling immigration reform they had lost their majority. Later there was a Republican/Democratic initiative that, initially, was thought to have an excellent chance of success. Those Republicans who opposed anything at all done under Obama scuttled the proposal, much to the chagrin of Republican leaders who had worked hard to write a successful bill offering a path to citizenship.
I think people (general condemned under the horrifying label of 'Liberals'), focus a lot on media attention to the problems of individual illegals simply because they can think of nothing else to do. With that they are having a bit of success protecting illegals a a local level, but as Larue points out, their problems are much bigger than the threat of deportation.
I see these problems as rooted in the economy. Without a prosperous economy people are easily persuaded to target other groups in the population. With current debt levels we will not see a prosperous economy for a long time, so exactly how will fine ideas like single-payer, universal health coverage, as proposed in California, be paid for??? To do so without an accompanying, promising tax proposal is irresponsible. Republicans have tried this general strategy over the years by including proposed budget cuts along with their proposals for spending increases. This has been condemned by those whose favorite programs are threatened with the axe, but neither are those folks able to find a way out of the mess. The only thing legislators have ever been able to agree on is to increase national debt. That is best termed "kick the can down the road" and leaves the debt for the next generation to deal with. We are at the end of the line for that.
Under current circumstances government cannot do what we want it to do, which would be to enable decent health care, education, and opportunity for everyone. We disabled people have been suffering decreased health care/Medicare options for 16 years because we are relatively invisible. Budget cuts are only going to kill off more of us with each passing year. This is a fact and we will individually protect ourselves as best we can.
Consider: It may be a mistake to blame my problems on inadequate health care or or state support. The villain might just be fate, as it was 100 years ago when someone died of bladder distention after a spinal cord injury or a spinal stroke.
Post by kilg0retr0ut on May 1, 2017 3:26:52 GMT -8
I liked how you say "condemned under the horrifying label of Liberal's", this is so true. It's like either you support Trump or your a snowflake Liberal. What happened to the rest of us who fall somewhere between far right or left. I think our government is having the same problem.
I liked how you say "condemned under the horrifying label of Liberal's", this is so true. It's like either you support Trump or your a snowflake Liberal. What happened to the rest of us who fall somewhere between far right or left. I think our government is having the same problem.
I have never voted and am not affiliated with any political party, and i agree kilg0retr0ut the infighting by congress is ridiculous and they should all be dismissed from their duties, because they do nothing for the people that doesn't benefit themselves and their chances for reelection. one of the reasons i like trump because he wants to drain the swamp of loser congressman and their political party allegiances. i believe this is the biggest issue and there shouldn't be political parties, everyone should be independents.
Sam, I've never voted and I'm not affiliated with any political party either. Also, I'm not even 'political'. But I appreciate being able to talk here with you and the rest of this forum about things that I notice happening in the world around us. I've lived outside of the US for a good-sized chunk of my life, and I care about other human beings in other countries and their lives, too. The world's problems are so big that no human is wise enough to solve them, but we still appreciate it when those in power do the best they can.
I have never voted and am not affiliated with any political party, and i agree kilg0retr0ut the infighting by congress is ridiculous and they should all be dismissed from their duties,
You dismissed yourself from the basic duty of citizenship when you reached adulthood, yet you somehow think the rest of us should listen to your opinions on politics? I am puzzled why you would think that.
I have never voted and am not affiliated with any political party, and i agree kilg0retr0ut the infighting by congress is ridiculous and they should all be dismissed from their duties,
You dismissed yourself from the basic duty of citizenship when you reached adulthood, yet you somehow think the rest of us should listen to your opinions on politics? I am puzzled why you would think that.
by no means do I expect anyone to listen to me, this is exactly why I don't get involved in politics and these type of discussions. voting is not a duty, it is voluntary.