Post by deanertheweiner on Nov 13, 2013 11:19:17 GMT -8
I see what you're saying. You have to think of it this way too. Certain hospitals specialize in different things. I didn't get admitted to a spinal cord rehab hospital until 6 months after my accident. One reason was I was medically unstable and not ready for an intense rehab program. The other reason is, you can imagine how many more people now get SCIs now with the increased numbers of people that are getting into a MVAs and so on. The wait list for admission into these facilities are crazy long. Once you're in you don't want to leave until you're better which makes the waiting list move a lot slower due to the number of rooms available.
Do something today that your future self will thank you for.
I went through a very similar thing. Doctors told my family I had no hope, my brain and spinal cord separated at the brain stem, I had a severe brain injury, I was in a coma/ on life support and may never wake up. They gave my dad the option to take me off of life support.
The problem is the hospital will always give the worst case scenario when discribing your current situation after severe trauma which doesn't help the person deciding to pull the plug or not. They don't want to give false hope and you never get better. I can see where they are coming from because they definetly see cases where the person never gets better. It also costs the hospital a fortune everyday that person is kept alive and they unfortunately want to keep costs down so they give you no hope.
Do I agree with these practices? No. When the hospital describes the persons current situation, they can explain it's too early to tell what's going to happen. Only in time will they be able to tell how much potential the person will have to recover. I definetly don't agree with penny pinching either. If it was Oboma's family in that situation they would keep them alive for months or years...
For this thread deanertheweiner..your personal experience gives us an excellent perspective on this story. You are the example that is best shown of how wrong the individual that the OP is discussing was advised/treated.
Good for you that you are the one to prove the medical profession wrong....because you are doing amazingly well...and how can a financial value be put on a life,on your own life when we can visibly see how you have progressed
I'm so interested to read everyone's thoughts on this as it directly relates to my work. I can remember when we finally (after many weeks in and out of different facilities with Andrew) made it to Craig Hospital. I actually found myself so angry . . . wondering why these other facilities did not know [medically] what Craig knew. They were not providing enough volumes of air for Andrew to be comfortable breathing, they did not know what a bowel program was, they did not pad him correctly in his bed, they told me he would never sit up-right again. I now realize these a basic care functions to caring for someone with SCI, but the 4 facilities Andrew was in prior to Craig Hospital knew nothing of these things. It still amazes me as to why this is. I am not saying every hospital is lacking in this area . . . but, it seems many do.
That's terrible d2mfoundation! You don't need to be specialized in spinal cord injuries to know what a bowel program is, I think something like that should be general knowledge for all hospital staff! You mentioned that these are basic care functions for caring with spinal cord injured people but I think it's basic care functions period. Most people coming into hospitals because of injuries, viruses & other illnesses will most likely require some of these basic care functions and if the hospital aren't trained to handle situations like this correctly, they shouldn't be operating at all.
That is so sad! I can't believe the hospital staff would tell him something, be so sure of themselves! I am a low level injury, so I have no experience with the vent issue, other issues quads face, but I remember being told I would never walk again in the first couple days after my injury. They were so sure, then, about three days later, I was standing with assistance. In the early days, I regained so much, then the infection got in my back, and much as they like to tell me, it caused damage to my spinal cord. I was initially diagnosed as an L1 burst fracture, but after the staph & strep ravaged my spine, I am T12-L2. As was posted in other posts, regular hospitals hardly know anything about SCI, bowel programs, or even bladder programs, I know from experience. I was in rehab for a month at a regular hospital, whose nurses were not trained to deal with a paraplegic. Sadly, a hospital with doctors trained to deal with SCI and all that comes with it was about a block away, in the same city. I was not informed of this, and really had no idea what had or was happening to me. I found apparelyzed (another forum) the month I stayed in a nursing home, which had no idea how to deal with me either, well, at first. I taught them well! Anyways, I feel that his life was stole from him by not being informed, by medical professionals who had no clue about his condition. They should've had someone who had experience and training talk to him.
When I got really depressed in rehab, the social worker had the leaders of the Dakota Center for Independent Living, who have been paras for 10+ years visit me. It made me re-evaluate my whole situation to see two people still happy after all they'd been through. Things like that should be done more often. Sadly, it doesn't happen.
Knight, it's sad to see how untrained hospital staff are for basic care needs. You have been told the same things what we've all been told as well and like you said you can now do things that they told you will never happen! I'm sorry about the lack of knowledge and support you got from the hospital and the other forum. Out goal here at Inspired is to offer those in need with the best help and support they can get!
The depression issue is unfortunately big for those with spinal cord injuries but like you said, there are many things the hospitals can do to help but sadly some of them don't. Meeting people with similar injuries that have been injured for a few years was probably the best thing for my family and myself. Seeing how much more able they were than we thought we would be, seeing how positive they are gave us a bit of relief. The way they describes my paralysis to my parents had them convinced that I'd struggle to even sit upright do to the lack of trunk function but looking at me now you'd never think I have an issue with my trunk control (when sat down).
I'm so interested to read everyone's thoughts on this as it directly relates to my work. I can remember when we finally (after many weeks in and out of different facilities with Andrew) made it to Craig Hospital. I actually found myself so angry . . . wondering why these other facilities did not know [medically] what Craig knew. They were not providing enough volumes of air for Andrew to be comfortable breathing, they did not know what a bowel program was, they did not pad him correctly in his bed, they told me he would never sit up-right again. I now realize these a basic care functions to caring for someone with SCI, but the 4 facilities Andrew was in prior to Craig Hospital knew nothing of these things. It still amazes me as to why this is. I am not saying every hospital is lacking in this area . . . but, it seems many do.
That's terrible d2mfoundation! You don't need to be specialized in spinal cord injuries to know what a bowel program is, I think something like that should be general knowledge for all hospital staff! You mentioned that these are basic care functions for caring with spinal cord injured people but I think it's basic care functions period. Most people coming into hospitals because of injuries, viruses & other illnesses will most likely require some of these basic care functions and if the hospital aren't trained to handle situations like this correctly, they shouldn't be operating at all.
It is TERRIBLE. This entire article and issue has lit a fire under me in my mission . . . I have a meeting being scheduled in Colorado at Craig Hospital, to discuss this very issue with, what I tend to call "first responding hospitals." The hospitals that receive patients from the beginning of their injuries and make the most important decisions for them from the onset. These are the medical personnel that need to be trained in SCI. There have been huge discoveries made in SCI in just the past 10 years and there are no known continuing education hours being offered to RN's or physicians that I can find specifically in SCI as a specialty. This is the reason I posted this topic. I wanted to go to those who live in this world of SCI to find out exactly how you feel about this issue . . . even though I really kind of knew . . . it helped to read your responses. This is truly a gap in medical care. Those at Craig know it and those of us that have personally lived through it either as patients or loved ones of patients know it and I am going to do my best to represent this community. I truly believe this gap exists because as a condition, there are only about 12,000 new cases of SCI in the U.S. per YEAR and so the SCI patient is not a common patient in hospitals. It isn't like other patients with heart attacks or cancers where there are literally 12,000 new cases of those per DAY in this country and, of course hospitals are well trained in these areas. It is going to be a huge task, but if I have an institution such as Craig Hospital on my team . . . I know it can be done. So fingers crossed for a successful meeting.
Post by d2mfoundation on Nov 14, 2013 13:13:14 GMT -8
And . . . I want to clarify one thing. When I refer to the first responding hospitals needing to be "trained" . . . I do not mean trained in rehabilitating those with SCI. I simply mean trained in understanding SCI and what each level of injury on the spine means with regard to function and possible outcomes in function. Medical staff at this first response level need to know what bowel programs are, how to pad patients in the bed correctly, and what AD is and how to deal with it. They need to understand the difference between complete and incomplete injuries and the fact that at the onset of the injury it is most likely not something they (at that level) are going to be able to determine . . . so they should NOT be telling patients what they are going to be or not be able to do for the rest of their lives. And they need to be well versed on "next steps" for SCI patients. There are so many great acute care rehab hospitals in this country and these should be the next steps for all SCI patients, and those first responding hospitals should be making sure patients and families are well aware of the options. People are falling through the cracks on not getting the rehab they deserve and so much of the reasons why are due to lack of knowledge about SCI.
And . . . I want to clarify one thing. When I refer to the first responding hospitals needing to be "trained" . . . I do not mean trained in rehabilitating those with SCI. I simply mean trained in understanding SCI and what each level of injury on the spine means with regard to function and possible outcomes in function. Medical staff at this first response level need to know what bowel programs are, how to pad patients in the bed correctly, and what AD is and how to deal with it. They need to understand the difference between complete and incomplete injuries and the fact that at the onset of the injury it is most likely not something they (at that level) are going to be able to determine . . . so they should NOT be telling patients what they are going to be or not be able to do for the rest of their lives. And they need to be well versed on "next steps" for SCI patients. There are so many great acute care rehab hospitals in this country and these should be the next steps for all SCI patients, and those first responding hospitals should be making sure patients and families are well aware of the options. People are falling through the cracks on not getting the rehab they deserve and so much of the reasons why are due to lack of knowledge about SCI.
Definitely d2mfoundation! Spinal cord injuries are very common as you've mentioned and basic training for what you've said above is a must!
And . . . I want to clarify one thing. When I refer to the first responding hospitals needing to be "trained" . . . I do not mean trained in rehabilitating those with SCI. I simply mean trained in understanding SCI and what each level of injury on the spine means with regard to function and possible outcomes in function. Medical staff at this first response level need to know what bowel programs are, how to pad patients in the bed correctly, and what AD is and how to deal with it. They need to understand the difference between complete and incomplete injuries and the fact that at the onset of the injury it is most likely not something they (at that level) are going to be able to determine . . . so they should NOT be telling patients what they are going to be or not be able to do for the rest of their lives. And they need to be well versed on "next steps" for SCI patients. There are so many great acute care rehab hospitals in this country and these should be the next steps for all SCI patients, and those first responding hospitals should be making sure patients and families are well aware of the options. People are falling through the cracks on not getting the rehab they deserve and so much of the reasons why are due to lack of knowledge about SCI.
Sadly, this lack of understanding and awareness is common in hospitals. The hospital that i had my emergency operation was a general hospital with a neuro section. My notes stated that I had Cauda Equina Syndrome but no one told me and the nursing staff must have never read my notes either because they treated me as having a regular back operation with no other problems and i would be fine in a week or two.
They put my bowel problems down to a 'bug' so they put me in a side room and barrier nursed...not realizing that i had nerve damage. I wasnt sent on to a spinal unit for rehab...(although i did end up in one 9 months later)
It comes down to money and training..staff need to be trained in spinal cord injury awareness and all aspects of health issues that surround it...
I find a similar problem with general doctors because many will admit that they may only ever meet one person with a spinal cord injury throughout their general practice......
Unfortunately this ignorance holds consequences for the individual and not all family members are determined and astute as you are...but all the best with your mission....im sure you will make a difference!
I think theres hope that cant be seen at first. It is definitely the role of staff to show some hope and he was in early recovery stages, right? ...
......... he was still in spinal shock and barely at that. Only injured for a day or so at the point he decided to have his ventilator turned off. In my opinion the medical staff should have never told them he would be on a vent the rest of his life. They did not know this. I highly doubt if he was a C3 C4 C5 level injury he would have. I'm sure he was very groggy from being taken out of sedation, he was then told his fate, insufficiently being given 700 to 800 volumes of air (which basically feels like he's being suffocated).........
That was me on August 26. C2,C3,C4. My family was told I would most likely be a quad for the rest of my days. Fortunately I was only on the ventilator for a day after surgery. That was the worst part of my entire 3 weeks in the hospital. In the ensuing 3 months, I have regained virtually all functions and have started to go back to work on a part time basis. I know I am luckier than most who have posted but I too feel so bad about the very hasty decision that was made.
I was initially in ITU in Belgium - I don't know much about the place as I was in a coma, then heavily sedated ( still managed to get out of bed, eventually had to be restrained! ). Transferred to a general hospital in UK, who decided to manage my bowels by lying me ( couldn't sit up ) across a bedpan !!!! I eventually got catheterised when I convinced them that I really was in pain because I couldn't pee properly ( they initially drained over 1 litre ) got told off for not wiping my ass ( couldn't get my arms behind me after the shoulder injuries I'd sustained ) and when they tried to make me stand ( about 6 weeks post accident) were surprised when I lost bowel control and anointed the floor !!!! Basically they hadn't a clue about spinal injury of any description. Luckily I was transferred to a specialist spinal unit within a few days, and managed properly. My wife had been told I wouldn't walk again, but they forgot to tell me, so by the time they got round to it, I was sitting in a wheelchair buying a new bike to replace the one I'd been twatted on. It was about then they realised I wasn't going to take no for an answer, one way or another I was going to.
Wow its interesting to see the common theme throughout this post of the treatment of newly Spinal Cord Injured patients....in reference to information that is given to family/individuals and basic care needs.
I think DJ that it would be useful to do a poll on this at some point?
Wow its interesting to see the common theme throughout this post of the treatment of newly Spinal Cord Injured patients....in reference to information that is given to family/individuals and basic care needs.
I think DJ that it would be useful to do a poll on this at some point?
I would love to see a poll and (with everyone's permission, of course) . . . I would like to print these responses out for use in my quest. It is definitely a common theme and has been since my coming onto the SCI scene in 2008.
I'm really happy to see everyone sharing their stories but at the same time disgusted to see how poorly you were all treated! donl1150 & hobbit, you guys are doing great so keep up the good work and show these doctors who's boss
Lαrα & d2mfoundation, great idea with the poll, what would you all like me to add as options for the poll?