Post by phugoi1982 on May 28, 2019 14:10:48 GMT -8
Has anyone ever had Somotasensory evoked potentials (SEP) test? Came back from the neurosurgeon. He is on the fence about surgery for the arachnoid cyst in the thoracic spine. He has conferred with a bunch of other colleagues as well and wants to do the SEP test to verify nerve conduction along the spinal cord. He said if he detects significant abnormalities in the thoracic spine he will do the surgery because he has said he has done surgery for people with cysts smaller than mine compressing the cord less but who had gait problems, ataxia etc..so he hasn't completely ruled out that being the cause but wants to be extra sure which i'm totally comfortable with.
However, I asked him to kindly look at some of my old lumbar MRI's and he stumbled from one from 2015 which was done 1.5 years after my l5-s1 microdiscectomy and has pretty stunned at how tight my spinal canal was even after so long after surgery, fibrosis not withstanding. Based on this, he is now again leaning to a an atypical cauda equina compression that was not addressed. He's very passionate about helping me get closure so he has asked me to get all the MRI's i've had done in the past 15 years of the lower spine to do a time history comparison based on deterioration of symptoms. Even he was surprised doctors waited till I had bilateral sciatica and almost complete stenosis of the foramina as well as my urinary/sexual symptoms before doing surgery. I'm at least someone is doing a comprehensive review of ALL MY IMAGING and not just saying well it doesn't look that bad now.
if, after my last answer, you had the impression that I would like to talk you badly about a possible surgery, this is certainly not the case. I would also try everything in your place.
To the SEP. Yes, I already had several and I am surprised that no one has ever ordered this from you. It looks like you finally found a doctor who has an interest in helping you. That sounds very good!
Grammatical errors are caused by the automatic translator.
No worries. Was the SEP test like an EMG? How good is it at picking up spinal cord nerve issues or demyelination? I've heard of Evoked potentials before but mostly in terms of people getting it to rule out Multiple Sclerosis or something like that.I'm also surprised no one ordered it before but most of neurologists/neurosurgeons from the past have just said my disc herniation isn't bad and sent me out the door
phugoi1982, needles were used on my last EMG, and electrodes were always attached to the SEP (in my case, and probably yours, including the tibial nerve). But both experiments use electrical impulses. As for the significance. Hmmm, there are different views. Experience has shown that neurosurgeons are more convinced about this method of examination (my neurologist does not think much of it). For me, the SEP before my surgery was always unremarkable (although I already had neurological abnormalities). Now I clearly have spinal cord damage (which is very visible on MRI), but the SEP shows only a slight affection of the lemniscal pathways.
Your question is not so easy to answer.
Grammatical errors are caused by the automatic translator.
... i've never had pain in the thoracic spine and have had it imaged a few times when they were looking for MS. I don't know much about arachnoid cysts and all but does anyone know of one in the thoracic region can cause similar symptoms to Cauda Equina? The doctor in the ER called me today and told me to see neurosurgeon to get a CT myelogram to confirm...
phugoi1982 , it should definitely be viewed by a neurosurgeon.
I can already imagine that your problems could come from the arachnoid cyst.
In my case, the spinal cord was displaced ventrally due to spinal cord herniation (T7/8). I never had any pain in the thoracic spine. The pain is in my lower back, buttocks and left leg. Bladder problems can also be caused by problems in the thoracic region. I wish you all the best.
Arachnoid cyst has historically been misdiagnosed for spinal cord herniation. In recent years, the diagnosis for SCH is increasing partly due to improvements in radiographic imaging and increased awareness from neuro docs in general. if it is SCH, find a doc who has performed this repair previously, if possible.
jellyfish, Thanks for the information! I'm scheduled to have the SEP June 12th and we will see after that.
donnaptwithsci, Thanks as well for your input. My problem is compounded by that fact that I do have a severe L5-S1 disc herniation that progressed over a decade and nothing was done about until I had surgery in 2014 as well as this thoracic arachnoid cyst discovered incidentally. As for a good surgeon, my doc is the chair of the dept. and a world renowned neurosurgeon apparently and he is also impeccably nice and caring so I trust him very much which is more than I can say for my previous experiences with doctors who blew me off in Boston, Chicago, and Puerto Rico.
Very depressed and feeling pretty raging. Just got back from meeting the neurosurgeon and I asked him to look at my MRI from just before surgery. He now thinks I had Cauda Equina Syndrome (Atypical) based on my MRI because even though my disc herniation is not compressing the thecal majorly I have very severe spinal stenosis (congenital) and he thinks that made me much more susceptible to a disc herniation as well as atypical Cauda Equina which progressed slowly and without weakness. I just got home and screamed and broke a bunch of things in my apartment. To think I spent 10 years yelling at the top of my lungs I had Cauda Equina syndrome and everyone just sat on their asses and did nothing and left me impotent and with 90 year old man's bladder. To think, they had very possible godamned break and they wouldn't have lost anything doing surgery on a mild disc herniation considering I was in so much pain.They had 10 YEARS!! and my symptoms were not even bad til year 9. The doc wants to wait for the Evoked potential just in case the arachnoid cyst might be causing but based on my MRI like he said he is definitely leaning towards Cauda Equina. My family practically disowned me because I had dropped out of college (eventually finished my Aeronautical engineering degree at the height of my symptoms) and my sister and father made fun of my symptoms and told my doctors not to listen to me. My mom wants me to forgive my sister even though she's not even apologized to me for all the nasty things she did. Both my sister and father misled the doctors and kept pushing me to psychiatrists and my dad wouldn't even let me see a neurosurgeon saying he won't pay for something that is all in my mind. He died last year and only near his death felt guilty about how he treated me. My sister who lives nearby never apologized for misleading the docs and just tells my mom "Oh well, that's what we thought. It was psychological. He has to move on." I blame them just as much as I blame the doctors for doing this to me. I mean if was crazy, let the doctors decide. Instead, they violoted my privacy laws, shamed me to whole town, and told docs it's all psychological so they had made up their minds before they even examined me. We are all prone the pre-judging people by first impressions. They all shamed me about my symptoms to suffer in silence so I held so much inside.
I'm so furious right now, I'm going to wait for the Evoked Potentials and then I'm going to go and confront every f*ing neurologist, psychiatrist and person who made fun of me and who called me a hypochondriac, stupid, and tried to have me committed and i'm going to slap them in their face. At least it will give me some closure. And I will bring my case out in the open.
Update on my situation. Neurosurgeons dont think arachnoid cyst responsible in the thoracic spine for my symptoms. Sent me to physical therapy and facet injections for lower back pain because of the aforementioned l5-s1 disc herniation. None helped. Physical therapist gave up one me because I wasn't getting better. However I am getting much more pain and saddle anesthesia. Numbness in inner Buttocks and anus. Saw another urologist who thinks cauda equina. Also did a penile doppler and says sexual dysfunction neurological. For the first time I had incomplete emptying upon bladder scanning. Was retaining 70 ml which isn't awful but had never had retention before on multiple bladder scans. I now literally have no urge to urinate and have to press on my bladder to see if it is full and gauge my pain level. I'm concerned that despite my worsening back pain and numbness and new incomplete emptying neuros still aren't doing anything. I mean, if my back was fully decompressed I shouldn't be getting worse. No sciatica or weakness but so what? I'm just frustrated and dont know what else to make them take me seriously. They're not going to care until I'm self cathing myself. Does anyone think open discectomy can offer better relief than microdiscectomy which is what I had or a single level fusion? can that visualize cord compression better. They still dont agree I had cauda equina which is idiotic at this point
Having had a broken L3 vertebrae before, I would suggest looking at that area of your spine. BTW a few years after that, I had a synthetic disc and plate put in at L5-S1. Was told L3 affects bladder. I'm no expert, however I have seen more than a few neurosurgeons. Now I'm a incomplete quad.
Update on my situation. Neurosurgeons dont think arachnoid cyst responsible in the thoracic spine for my symptoms. Sent me to physical therapy and facet injections for lower back pain because of the aforementioned l5-s1 disc herniation. None helped. Physical therapist gave up one me because I wasn't getting better. However I am getting much more pain and saddle anesthesia. Numbness in inner Buttocks and anus. Saw another urologist who thinks cauda equina. Also did a penile doppler and says sexual dysfunction neurological. For the first time I had incomplete emptying upon bladder scanning. Was retaining 70 ml which isn't awful but had never had retention before on multiple bladder scans. I now literally have no urge to urinate and have to press on my bladder to see if it is full and gauge my pain level. I'm concerned that despite my worsening back pain and numbness and new incomplete emptying neuros still aren't doing anything. I mean, if my back was fully decompressed I shouldn't be getting worse. No sciatica or weakness but so what? I'm just frustrated and dont know what else to make them take me seriously. They're not going to care until I'm self cathing myself. Does anyone think open discectomy can offer better relief than microdiscectomy which is what I had or a single level fusion? can that visualize cord compression better. They still dont agree I had cauda equina which is idiotic at this point
I ish I could fix the idiocy of Neuros who do not understand cauda equina, but your experience is far from unique.
I step in the water, but the water has moved on...
Update on my situation. Neurosurgeons dont think arachnoid cyst responsible in the thoracic spine for my symptoms. Sent me to physical therapy and facet injections for lower back pain because of the aforementioned l5-s1 disc herniation. None helped. Physical therapist gave up one me because I wasn't getting better. However I am getting much more pain and saddle anesthesia. Numbness in inner Buttocks and anus. Saw another urologist who thinks cauda equina. Also did a penile doppler and says sexual dysfunction neurological. For the first time I had incomplete emptying upon bladder scanning. Was retaining 70 ml which isn't awful but had never had retention before on multiple bladder scans. I now literally have no urge to urinate and have to press on my bladder to see if it is full and gauge my pain level. I'm concerned that despite my worsening back pain and numbness and new incomplete emptying neuros still aren't doing anything. I mean, if my back was fully decompressed I shouldn't be getting worse. No sciatica or weakness but so what? I'm just frustrated and dont know what else to make them take me seriously. They're not going to care until I'm self cathing myself. Does anyone think open discectomy can offer better relief than microdiscectomy which is what I had or a single level fusion? can that visualize cord compression better. They still dont agree I had cauda equina which is idiotic at this point
I ish I could fix the idiocy of Neuros who do not understand cauda equina, but your experience is far from unique.
I just wish they weren't so damm reliant on the MRI for diagnosis. And by that I mean for a person who still shows evidence of a large herniation which I do despite surgery. I don't buy my report that says my herniation is compressing my exiting s1 nerve roots and only "touching" my thecal sac. I'm a scientist and if you do an MRI on a person lying down without compression and with gravity acting orthogonal to your spinal plane that is part of everyday lives of course it will miss cauda equina in a multiple cases.
Even my neuros disagree about my stenosis. The head of neurosurgery at georgetown says I have congenital stenosis and I probably had atypical cauda equina but there's no way to prove it. The others say unremarkable stenosis. But when I tell him why he wont he operate now, he says if you had cauda equina we would see it. My argument is if you're saying I had cauda equina before and every doctor from mayo clinic to mass general (among best hospitals in the world) missed it whats to say I dont have an atypical cauda equina now continuing with unresolved compression. Stop relying on the MRI in difficult cases. Where is my logical fallacy here?
Your logic is sound. Doctors tend to insist the MRI, or other tests, are infallible and that our symptoms therefore are irrelevant. How logical is that?
I step in the water, but the water has moved on...
Thanks for at least making feel less crazy. My family, at least my sister, acts like I'm dumb and lazy and that's why I'm in this predicament because I dont want to get a job and be "normal". My mom thinks yoga solves everything which I've tried and can barely do, and I just get frustrated dealing with people who cant get how I look normal yet cant function. I'm also afraid to see more docs after I mentioned last time about how one neuro tried to have me committed. Fortunately my urologist believes me and said that doctor is an "Irresponsible b#$tch, who should have her license revoked". He at least agrees that neuros, who cant solve my issue resort to the easy blame the patient argument. I'm going on vacation next week to warm climate hoping that will help but when I come back I will insist on surgery. After all, my surgeon sent me to PT, and injections and I did everything they asked and am not getting better.
Being able to pee when needed is essential. Do what you have to do to keep the urine flowing. Next, (forgive my candor, but I speak from experience), your best course is to free yourself of your toxic family. If they need help, and you can help them,... and if you WANT to help them, then, yes,... help your family members. But if they are using your current predicament to gloat that “they” are in a more favored position than you, that’s just condescending and cruel. Not everybody does that. Toxic people do that. Get your basic health needs cared for, then create a plan for independence from your family. phugoi1982, if women can chase after actual “criminals”, you KNOW that you have more to offer than that. You can still build a happy, productive life for yourself. Whew! I didn’t know I had that in me!